From: Kragen Sitaker (kragen@pobox.com)
Date: Fri Nov 17 2000 - 19:13:26 PST
Jeff Bone writes:
> I believe it's fairly well *objectively* documented that the US in general has
> the best health care in the world, in terms of breadth, depth, and success
> rates of various treatments.
I'm not sure that's true. There's this quote from
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/healthca/hodgson.htm:
> The quality of American medical care is at issue too. After twenty
> years of unprecedentedly high spending for research our public health
> standards have fallen far behind some countries with fewer resources.
> We rank seventeenth in infant mortality, according to a United Nations
> study; thirtieth in life expectancy for males, behind Spain, Greece,
> and five Communist nations in Eastern Europe.
Here are some stats:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.photius.com/wfb1999/rankings/infant_mortality_0.html+spain+greece+infant+mortality+per says:
World Maps of All Infant mortality rate - deaths per 1,000 live births
Countries Data source: 1999 CIA World Factbook
www.geographic.ORG View this list View this list
* Population in alphabetic View this list in in alphabetic
* Population Growth order alphabetic order order
Rate 1 Afghanistan 140.55
* Population 2 Western Sahara 136.67
Density 3 Malawi 132.14
* Birth Rate 4 Angola 129.19
* Death Rate 5 Guinea 126.32
* Migration Rate 6 Sierra Leone 126.23
* Life Expectancy 7 Somalia 125.77
* Infant Mortality 8 Ethiopia 124.57
. Feedback 9 Mali 119.44
10 Mozambique 117.56
=========== 11 Chad 115.27
12 Tajikistan 114.78
[TOP] 13 Rwanda 112.86
14 Niger 112.79
15 Guinea-Bissau 109.50
16 Bhutan 109.33
17 Burkina Faso 107.19
18 Cambodia 105.06
19 Central African 103.42
Republic
20 Swaziland 101.87
21 Liberia 100.63
22 Congo, Republic of 100.58
the
23 Djibouti 100.24
24 Congo, Democratic 99.45
Republic of the
25 Burundi 99.36
26 Benin 97.76
27 Haiti 97.64
28 Tanzania 95.27
29 Cote d'Ivoire 94.17
30 Pakistan 91.86
31 Zambia 91.85
32 Equatorial Guinea 91.18
33 Uganda 90.68
34 Laos 89.32
35 Madagascar 89.10
36 Gabon 83.10
37 Azerbaijan 82.52
38 Comoros 81.63
39 Lesotho 77.58
40 Togo 77.55
41 Eritrea 76.84
42 Mauritania 76.46
43 Burma 76.25
44 Ghana 76.15
45 Kyrgyzstan 75.92
46 Cameroon 75.69
47 Gambia, The 75.33
48 Nepal 73.58
49 Turkmenistan 73.10
50 Uzbekistan 71.58
51 Sudan 70.94
52 Yemen 69.82
53 Bangladesh 69.68
54 Nigeria 69.46
55 Mayotte 69.06
56 Egypt 67.46
57 Namibia 65.94
58 Mongolia 64.63
59 Iraq 62.41
60 Bolivia 62.02
61 Zimbabwe 61.21
62 India 60.81
63 Senegal 59.81
64 Vanuatu 59.58
65 Botswana 59.08
66 Kenya 59.07
67 Kazakhstan 58.82
68 Indonesia 57.30
69 World 56.00
70 Papua New Guinea 55.58
71 Sao Tome and 52.93
Principe
72 Georgia 52.01
73 South Africa 51.99
74 Morocco 50.96
75 Guyana 48.64
76 Kiribati 48.22
77 Guatemala 46.15
78 Cape Verde 45.50
79 Algeria 43.82
80 Moldova 43.52
81 Marshall Islands 43.38
82 China 43.31
83 Albania 42.90
84 Dominican Republic 42.52
85 Armenia 41.12
86 Honduras 40.84
87 Nicaragua 40.47
88 Peru 38.97
89 Saudi Arabia 38.80
90 Maldives 38.14
91 Tonga 37.93
92 Syria 36.42
93 Paraguay 36.35
94 Turkey 35.81
95 Brazil 35.37
96 Vietnam 34.84
97 Micronesia, 33.99
Federated States of
98 Philippines 33.89
99 Jordan 32.70
100 Belize 31.57
101 Tunisia 31.38
102 Ecuador 30.69
103 Lebanon 30.53
104 Samoa 30.50
105 Iran 29.73
106 Thailand 29.54
107 El Salvador 28.38
108 Libya 28.15
109 Saint Helena 27.98
110 Suriname 26.52
111 Venezuela 26.51
112 Tuvalu 25.53
113 Korea, North 25.52
114 West Bank 25.22
115 Oman 24.71
116 Cook Islands 24.70
117 Mexico 24.62
118 Bosnia and 24.52
Herzegovina
119 Colombia 24.30
120 Panama 23.35
121 Russia 23.00
121 Solomon Islands 23.00
122 Gaza Strip 22.92
123 Brunei 22.83
124 British Virgin 22.17
Islands
125 Ukraine 21.73
126 Malaysia 21.68
127 Turks and Caicos 21.11
Islands
128 Antigua and Barbuda 20.69
129 Greenland 20.06
130 Anguilla 18.72
Macedonia, The
131 Former Yugoslav 18.68
Republic of
132 Trinidad and Tobago 18.56
133 Palau 18.50
134 Argentina 18.41
135 Bahamas, The 18.38
136 Romania 18.12
137 Saint Kitts and 17.39
Nevis
138 Qatar 17.25
139 Latvia 17.19
140 Barbados 16.74
141 Seychelles 16.65
142 Saint Lucia 16.55
143 Serbia 16.49
144 Fiji 16.30
145 Mauritius 16.20
146 Sri Lanka 16.12
147 Saint Vincent and 15.16
the Grenadines
148 Bahrain 14.81
149 Lithuania 14.71
150 Belarus 14.39
151 United Arab 14.10
Emirates
152 Jamaica 13.93
153 Estonia 13.83
154 French Polynesia 13.59
155 Uruguay 13.49
156 French Guiana 12.93
157 Costa Rica 12.89
158 Poland 12.76
159 Netherlands 12.59
Antilles
160 Bulgaria 12.37
161 New Caledonia 12.15
162 Montserrat 12.00
163 Grenada 11.13
164 Montenegro 10.99
165 Puerto Rico 10.79
166 Faroe Islands 10.26
166 Kuwait 10.26
167 American Samoa 10.19
168 Virgin Islands 10.07
169 Chile 10.02
170 Slovakia 9.48
171 Hungary 9.46
172 Bermuda 9.27
173 Dominica 8.75
174 Guadeloupe 8.54
175 Guernsey 8.42
176 Cayman Islands 8.40
177 Saint Pierre and 8.12
Miquelon
178 Aruba 7.84
178 Croatia 7.84
179 Cuba 7.81
179 Guam 7.81
180 Israel 7.78
181 Cyprus 7.68
181 Cyprus - Turkish 7.68
Sector
182 Korea, South 7.57
183 Malta 7.42
184 Greece 7.13
185 Reunion 6.90
186 Northern Mariana 6.80
Islands
187 Martinique 6.76
188 Portugal 6.73
189 Czech Republic 6.67
190 Gibraltar 6.47
190 Monaco 6.47
191 Spain 6.41
192 United States 6.33
193 Italy 6.30
194 New Zealand 6.22
195 Belgium 6.17
196 Taiwan 6.01
197 Ireland 5.94
198 United Kingdom 5.78
199 France 5.62
200 Canada 5.47
201 San Marino 5.39
202 Slovenia 5.28
203 Liechtenstein 5.23
204 Iceland 5.22
205 Hong Kong 5.20
206 Germany 5.14
207 Australia 5.11
207 Denmark 5.11
207 Netherlands 5.11
208 Austria 5.10
209 Luxembourg 4.99
210 Norway 4.96
211 Switzerland 4.87
212 Macau 4.23
213 Andorra 4.08
214 Japan 4.07
215 Sweden 3.91
216 Singapore 3.84
217 Finland 3.80
218 Jersey 2.76
219 Man, Isle of 2.45
This has a lot to do with the problems you noted in your email: limited
availability of stellar health care, and the HMOs that serve the
majority of the insured population provide really awful health care.
Notice that essentially every industrialized country is better than the
US, measured by infant mortality. This is because they're all more
socialist than we are. Some of the most socialist countries have rates
only slightly over half ours. (A couple of British islands are even
lower, but they're too small to count, I think.)
Infant mortality is a particularly nice statistic for this measurement,
for several reasons:
- you can't blame the victims for not working harder and getting
themselves better health insurance
- it's fairly well documented almost everywhere; other statistics, like
tuberculosis prevalence, are more spotty
- it's strongly affected by maternal health
- it's pretty hard to dismiss as nonserious
It's nice to say, "We have great health care for those who can afford
it." But I think the average effectiveness of health care --- as
represented by these statistics --- is a much more important
measurement than the maximum effectiveness.
> don't tell me about all the nightmare problems you might've had with a
> managed healthcare program here: I'm a big opponent of HMOs, hate 'em, I find
> dealing with them incredibly frustrating and think they provide shitty
> healthcare.
HMOs are a fact of life for the majority of Americans with any health
insurance at all. I'm sorry you don't want to hear about it; there
simply isn't a viable alternative for many of us.
> But since when did healthcare become a right?
Well, there's this document that begins, "We hold these truths to be
self-evident: that men are endowed by their Creator with certain
unalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit
of Happiness." Healthcare is needed for the first of these three.
More recently, there's http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html, which
has a similar phrase in Article 3, and a more explicit Article 22:
Article 22.
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and
is entitled to realization, through national effort and international
co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of
each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable
for his dignity and the free development of his personality.
I would argue that dying in infancy because your parents couldn't
afford prenatal health care constitutes loss of "the economic . . .
rights indispensable to his dignity and the free development of his
personality." In fact, so does dying at 20, or 40.
And:
Article 25.
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the
health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food,
clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and
the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness,
disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in
circumstances beyond his control.
--
<kragen@pobox.com> Kragen Sitaker <http://www.pobox.com/~kragen/>
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we ourselves
possess.
-- Gandalf the Grey [J.R.R. Tolkien, "Lord of the Rings"]
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Fri Nov 17 2000 - 19:45:05 PST