Worth Re: [FoRK] Faith and/or Science - Newton et al

[Lion Kimbro]

On Nov 28, 2007 1:50 PM, Dr. Ernie Prabhakar
<drernie at radicalcentrism.org> wrote:
> Religion is about creating shared meaning, and that cuts both ways.

  Wait -- I just realized something.

  With all due respect:  Talking about "shared meaning"
  seems to be a bit of a red herring.  I think we can get
  closer to the source -- **stories.**


  Let's recast this a little, and I think everything'll get
  a little bit clearer:

    Religion is about **Shared Stories.**

  My 'ligious friend says, "A church is a people with
  a shared story."  That makes sense to me.


  Once you have whole stories in place, all the "meanings"
  fall out naturally, by looking at how they relate to the
  rest of the story.


  ex:  Jeff & Tom have a shared story.

  It goes, "Bang, splat, evolve, pre-science (cruelty,)
    science (enlightenment, rationality,) today,
    trans-human future."

  But this is a "choose-your-own-adventure" story,
  and we **could** go back to "pre-science."

  From that story, we understand the "meaning" of
  things like religious violence -- it is the indicator
  that we're going back to  pre-science (cruelty.)

  They don't want their kids, or anyone else for that
  matter, to go to that world, so: they oppose
  religion.

  Religion **means** (implies, brings about) all
  those things.

  So, there is a shared story, which means that
  there is shared meaning, between them.

  (I just think "story" is a bit more concrete
   to most people than "meaning.")


  Jeff can't *really* be against meaning, any more
  than he can be against his own conclusion that
  religion means badness.

  So, how do Tom & Jeff feel about **shared stories?**

  Science is perhaps the originator of the greatest
  shared story that there is, in existence.  Through
  science, we've discovered that original estimates
  ("6,000 years old") are hardly anything at all.

    (The universe of the Bible is positively **tiny.**
     They did not imagine **anything** near as large as
     what we now imagine, and I wouldn't be surprised
     if they were imagining as hard as they thought
     that they could -- I have never seen an "apology
     for the wimpy miniscule universe.")

  Jeff & Tom are okay with this shared story.

  Now, meanings come out from this story--
  everything is in relationship with this story.


  And yet, it seems that Jeff & Tom have other
  stories, on top of this scientific story.

  For example, what role does Science itself
  play in this story?  Are people valuable or not,
  and why?  What is the naturalistic foundation
  for an egalitarian ethic then, for instance?

  Whatever their answers, they must ultimately
  find root in the grand story of the Universe.

  So:  Jeff, Tom, ...  ... how do those stories go?

  What are your stories of social evolution?

  Or do you deny that you have any such stories?