[FoRK] Re: "Thanks for the Facts. Now Sell Them."

Jeff Bone <jbone at place.org> on Tue Apr 17 09:00:35 PDT 2007

On Apr 17, 2007, at 9:26 AM, Bill Stoddard wrote:

> Jeff Bone wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 15, 2007, at 9:03 PM, Lion Kimbro wrote:
>>
>>>  People are *right* to reject a purposeless, hollow, soulless  
>>> worldview.
>>>
>>>  At any rate, this is my thought.  If we are to do more than  
>>> "fend off"
>>>  religionists, I think we need to dramatically adjust our  
>>> consciousness
>>>  about what science is, and what we need as people, and what the
>>>  universe is, and what it means.
>>
>> Reality is what it is.
> Yep. And like it or not, Kimbro has a good grasp of it,

Kimbro has a good grasp of the self-help aisle and this weird neo- 
post-new-age jingo that's become epidemic these days --- no longer  
confined to the nutball fringes.

> although I suspect his quest is futile.
>
> Reality:
> - Not everyone sees the world the same way

Yeah, it's all seen through varying degrees of delusion.

The scientific method is the ONLY reliable means we have of achieving  
a consensus understanding of the reality we all *actually* live in  
--- i.e., building an internal model that (a) is as close an  
approximation as possible to the way things *actually* are, and ---  
purely as a side-effect --- (b) getting some guarantee from the  
process that my model's going to be similar to your model.  Got a  
better way to understand reality?  I'm all ears.

> - Past attempts to force people to see the world the same way have  
> all gone -very- badly (Mao, Pol Pot, you-know-who)

It's not a matter of "seeing" the world this way or that --- that's  
the point.  There's an objective reality out there.  The name of the  
game is to figure out what that is, as much as we're able, with the  
greatest possible confidence / reliability in that gained understanding.

I find it both incredibly amusing and incredibly terrifying that all  
these religious nutballs, spiritualists, etc. who have so long and  
steadfastly insisted on moral absolutes are now adopting increasingly- 
staunch solipsistic stances.  Populist Republicans --- relativist  
"conservatives" --- the co-opting of quantum mechanics by the new  
agers, etc.  Rejection of "reality-based community."

Age of Unreason.

Whatever.

jb


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