Re: There They Go, Bad-Mouthing Divorce Again

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From: Dan Brickley (
Date: Tue Sep 12 2000 - 10:26:15 PDT

On Tue, 12 Sep 2000, Dave Winer wrote:

> Human beings didn't evolve into the isolated lifestyle we live today. We
> used to live in villages. Each adult would be intimate with 20 other adults.
> I think that's how we're programmed, and why looking to one person for
> intimacy leads to dissatisfaction. My own opinion of course. Dave

According to the Minnesota Daily (first google hit on Bonobo monkeys :)
it goes back somewhat before that... --danbri

        Bonobo monkeys considered primitive version of humanity

"Bonobos are so close to humans in the anatomy and in their behavior
that they create problems for the way we
conceptualize human nature," he said. "Whenever they come up, academics
argue about them."
Other similarities include a slender, graceful physical makeup and small
teeth. Such similarities show that bonobos are merely a more
primitive version of humanity.

The other evolutionary model suggested that evolution proceeded through
various phases, producing an early human with a variety of
characteristics common to both chimpanzees and bonobos.

The intricacies of the bonobo social system were also addressed. He
pointed out that a low level of conflict led to a high survival rate of
bonobo offspring. The low level of conflict is a direct result of the
highly-sexual lifestyle in bonobo society.

Sex is nearly constant within bonobo social circles. Bonobos use sex
beyond reproductive means; they use it to alleviate tension and socially
bond, as well as a means for erotic love.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lisa Dusseault" <>
> To: <FoRK@XeNT.CoM>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2000 9:40 AM
> Subject: RE: There They Go, Bad-Mouthing Divorce Again
> > Much as I'd like to agree with the pro-marriage sentiments, I'm dubious
> > about the "I know n couples who are truly happily married" statement. I
> > used to think I could at least count on my parents and grand-parents, well
> > that's three couples there, right? Um, actually, no. Both my
> grandmothers
> > wrote "auto-biographies" in the last few years, and although each of them
> > married one man and stayed with him, neither of them was happy about it.
> In
> > fact, the complaints are bitter. Boy am I glad that society restricts me
> > less, in that I can get divorced or separated without suffering social
> > discrimination for decades, which is what one of my grandmothers actually
> > considered as an action/consequence. And my parents? Well, my mom is
> > pretty closed-mouthed, but I get the impression she would like my dad to
> > travel less, and wishes she had more to fill her time. Can I claim that
> > another couple is happily married when they might have plenty of reasons
> for
> > concealing their problems from me?
> >
> > [I've started to wonder whether, given that men seemed to have the
> > advantages in a marriage in the past, most women were unhappy but socially
> > trapped. That could explain why today's more independent and socially
> less
> > restricted women leave their mates more often. There's too many factors
> to
> > know though.]
> >
> > Have you ever had the experience of knowing a couple you beleived to be
> > "truly happily married" -- until it falls apart in an awful, messy
> divorce?
> > I have. Many people hide their troubles from everybody, or at least only
> > confide in a friend or relative or two, which probably isn't you.
> >
> > Sadly, you can't even trust declarations from people who say "we are [I
> am]
> > truly, happily, married". I've said that. I was wrong.
> >
> > Does "truly happily married" encompass people who are sticking it out and
> > working hard to make it work -- perhaps because they have kids, or a
> house,
> > or just that public social commitment -- but might separate some day if
> the
> > situation gets worse or the ties somehow loosen?
> >
> > Does "truly happily married" encompass couples who seem happy, but in fact
> > have some internal stand-off arranged (e.g. an affair now and then is
> > tolerated, or serious compromises made in terms of how much time they can
> > stand to be together)?
> >
> > Does it count if there have been serious troubles in the past? E.g. I
> know
> > an older couple that barely made it through the years when their children
> > were young and the wife was frequently sick yet they needed the money she
> > got from working. I know they're doing better now, but wounds likely
> still
> > exist from that time. In my experience, making it through a difficult
> > period might not make a couple stronger -- it can also introduce or expose
> > cracks which only burst open later.
> >
> > Not to say "truly happily married" doesn't exist, but it certainly is
> rarer
> > than I wish it were. I'm in favour of divorce, which isn't to say I think
> > everybody should get divorced: I just think it's a reasonable and
> > un-disgraceful solution to a common problem.
> >
> > Lisa
> >
> >

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