Re: The new death penalty

Gregory Alan Bolcer (gbolcer@endTECH.com)
Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:48:16 -0700


Okay, looking up the references. You are leaving one major component
out of your equation/arguement: small businesses. One of the single
biggest reasons estate taxes are so evil is that in order for the heirs
to pay the taxes, many of the small businesses have to be broken up.
The book [1] below has been a topic of discussion from several sources.
It paints a different picture that what the numbers below do. I can't
say that I've read it, but it's on my reading list. I'm sure others on
the list can fill in the blanks.

Greg

[1] The Millionaire Next Door : The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0671015206/o/qid=933781624/sr=2-2/002-4068635-9546037

Dave Long wrote:
>
> > $650k is nothing in California if you add up the average house and
> > retirement fund. $1M even pushes the barrier.
>
> Remember, that's per spouse. So it's effectively (if all the
> financial advertising has actually educated me any) $1.3M now, going
> up to $2M early next century.
>
> Do you have data for average house and retirement fund in CA? Best
> I could come up with this evening was a June 1999 census report at
> <http://www.census.gov/const/c25_curr.txt>, which gives a median
> price of $157K for a single-family house, showing that one can't
> extrapolate from OC or the Bay Area very well to the rest of the
> country. No data on retirement funds; the wealth data from 1993
> suggests that under 4% of households had a net worth in excess of
> half a million. Pointers to more recent and more specific data
> appreciated.
>
> OK, here's a figure for CA. According to the news from April at
> <http://realtimes.com/rtnews/rtcpages/19990428_cahomesales.htm>,
> median SFR is $213K. Even after doubling that for non-primary
> residence assets, you're a far cry from $1.3M.
>
> >From "Family Finances in the US: Recent Evidence from the Survey of
> Consumer Finances", Federal Reserve Bulletin, vol 83 (Jan 97)
> pp. 1-24: <http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/pubs/bulletin/1997/0197lead.pdf>
>
> Median Family Net Worth: 1995 ($, thousands)
> ---------------------------------------
> all families . . . . . . 56.4
> income >$100,000 . . . .485.9
> age of head 65+. . . . ~100
>
> Median Value of Retirement Accounts: 1995 ($, thousands) (% holding)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> all families . . . . . . 15.6 . . . . . 43.0
> income >$100,000 . . . . 85.0 . . . . . 84.6
> age of head 65+. . . . . 30-
>
> Median Value of Primary Residence: 1995 ($, thousands) (% owning)
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> all families . . . . . . 86.8 . . . . . 63.9
> income >$100,000 . . . 217.0 . . . . . 90.5
> age of head 65+. . . . .~70 . . . . .~78
>
> > making every generation start from a fixed amount? Heck, the 16th
> > amendment was a mistake that should be repealed. [1]
>
> Can we please be clearer what we're discussing? There's already been
> plenty of confusion of payroll taxes with income taxes, and now
> you're dragging income taxation into the estate tax arena.
>
> (Note that if you're in the position of being worried about estate
> taxes, income taxes work to your benefit, as they shift any given
> tax burden away from large concentrations of property, and towards a
> motley collection of wage earners.)
>
> In terms of providing opportunities for children: in my area of CA
> (where one is unlikely to find condo conversions for under $200K),
> $18K/yr after taxes could reasonably support the life of a surf bum;
> maybe even a well-heeled surf bum. A capitalization of $300-450K
> ought to suffice to throw that off, and I dare say that money could
> go much further in Baja. How much does tuition run these days?
> Surely $240K should suffice to get more (than enough?) education than
> the average rabbit?
>
> Then again, all it takes is a good round of inflation to wipe out
> savings. At least with taxation, you're not only told the rules
> beforehand but also stand a chance of benefit.
>
> -Dave
>
> I might argue that, in terms of utility to your offspring, the
> legacies of genes, education, and a civil society go much further
> to their benefit than that of property.